The low carb diet appears to be pretty useful for a lot of people recovering from chronic illness. It certainly was for me. Nevertheless, there is a lot of controversy in the Primal community these days about limiting carbohydrates. I’ve been pretty interested in these discussions because, as my regular readers know, I’ve been a long time low-carber. I’ve been reading a lot and asking myself whether it was really the elimination of carbs that eased my symptoms and whether another approach might be equally (or more) effective.
Low carb advocates believe that limiting carbohydrates controls insulin resistance, which is at the base of countless chronic illnesses. They say that insulin resistance is caused by carbohydrate gluttony and that it is cured by eliminating carbs. I agree with them to a point but my own experience (and that of many others) suggests that the equation is not quite so simple.
I wasn’t big on sugar most of my life – I did eat a decent amount of grains, but a lot of people eat grains and 100 pounds of sugar per year and don’t end up with the degree of insulin resistance that I ended up with. What’s up with that?
I went low carb some years ago due to symptoms of insulin resistance which took the shape of PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome). Eliminating carbs, and keeping my body in ketosis among a few other diet and lifestyle rules kept my symptoms totally in check and helped me to feel great. But I remember a time a few years ago when I was eating a raw Primal diet with white rice and I was also symptom free. Hmm.
I’m allergic to rice now (I think a couple of immensely stressful events triggered the allergy) and I can’t do that diet anymore so I tried duplicating the diet with other grains but that never worked.
So earlier this summer when I randomly ate some sugar (which I explained in this post) I was surprised and excited that I didn’t break out, get sad, gain weight, or anything else that I expected. It was an eye opening moment. I had thought that because I was insulin resistant I couldn’t touch sugar with a ten foot poll. Apparently it is not so clear cut as that – carbs raise insulin, so you must avoid carbs.
So for the last four months I’ve been reading more on the subject and experimenting (very methodically) with with my diet again.
It was pretty obvious that I was doing well with plain table sugar, but I decided to reach out to Paul Jaminet anyway since he’s Primal and a scientist (scientists who’ve seen the Paleo light get respect!) and he wrote a great book called the Perfect Health Diet about ideal Primal nutrition. His opinion was that it was good I had added some carbs back into my diet even if they were coming from sugar. He contends that it would be better if those carbs came from whole foods but in his opinion a body is better off not having to rely on gluconeogenesis.
I am beginning to understand that it is not high carb diets per se which cause chronic illness. There are plenty of indigenous people around the world whose diets are highly centered on natural carbohydrates – as Melissa McEwen talked about in a recent post – who have never experienced any of our encyclopedia full of modern illnesses. Why is this?
Industrialization, gluttony, and nutrient deficiencies I suppose…
Factors That Might Lead to Metabolic Illnesses
- Food Processing and Food Chemicals
Food processing methods which indigenous cultures did not employ such as the use of flavorings, homogenization, corn syrup, etc. can tax the liver.
- Prescription Drugs
Americans are too quick to pop a pill to quell everything from a headache, to high cholesterol, to anxiety. But drugs can sap our bodies of nutrients like vitamin C, magnesium, the B vitamins, zinc, and others.
- Recreational Drugs and Alcohol
Alcohol and street drugs like marijuana, ecstasy, and cocaine also deplete the body of certain nutrients. We all know that drugs are bad but we don’t always realize how dramatic their effect on the body can be. A body must use its nutrient stores to process and eliminate these substances. Additionally, many of them affect the digestion, which compounds the problem. “Alcohol interferes with the nutritional process by affecting digestion, storage, utilization, and excretion of nutrients.”
- Low Fat and Vegetarian Diets
The most trendy and harmful diet of all have been those which limit or eliminate fats. In order to absorb fat soluble vitamins A, E, K, and D we need fat. Additionally, saturated animal fats are so critical for many biological functions it is absolutely detrimental to eliminate them.
- Wheat, Antibiotics, and Other Digestive Disruptions
The over-consumption of unfermented wheat products is destroying many a digestive system as is the ubiquitous anti-bitotic. And high fiber, low fat, and cardboard gluten free processed crap isn’t helping our digestive tracts at all. Once our digestion becomes compromised, our immune systems suffer and once that happens, allergies and infections surface.
It Boils Down to Nutrient Deficiencies
Eventually, these and other factors lead to nutrient deficiencies. When nutrient deficient foods displace nutrient dense foods, people become ill. Linus Pauling wisely observed that
“you can trace every sickness, every disease and every ailment to a mineral deficiency.” (or vitamin, or fat, or water deficiency just to be thorough here
)
So, a body makes sacrifices to keep us alive. It will leach calcium and magnesium from our bones when it is not available in the foods we eat. It strives to find a way to manufacture homeostasis at the expense of other necessary functions.
It is thought by some that the same thing is happening when we engage in low carb eating. Now listen, I’m not saying that I know this to be true beyond a shadow of a doubt, but if you are a low-carber yourself you should consider this interesting point.
Since the body is able to make its own glucose (from gluconeogenesis) in the absence of dietary glucose, we assume that glucose is not necessary. We don’t need to eat it if the body can just make it for us, right? But as Kurt Harris, MD says,
“Rather than viewing this as evidence that glucose is not important, we should view this as evidence that glucose is so metabolically important that we have evolved way to make sure we always have it.”
The body is a master at finding a way to keep us alive temporarily until it can get what it needs from diet. Look how long you can keep going and even feeling great on a raw fruitarian diet. Eventually though, the lack of necessary nutrients and macro nutrients and the stress put on the liver from excess fructose will take its toll. Just because you seem to thrive for a while doesn’t mean you will forever.
Maybe it is the same with low carb diets. Our livers will save us from a quick glucose deficient death by producing glucose, but should we really be asking it to do that indefinitely?
Low Carb Diets May Cause Thyroid Problems
Paul Jaminet recently responded to some research showing that VLC diets may be responsible for thyroid problems and muscle atrophy. After reviewing the literature himself, he does not contend that a person must eat a diet high in carbohydrates but that zero carb diets are likely to cause problems and very low carb diets should be executed with caution.
The thyroid problems arise from glucose deficiency, which I had not heard of hitherto reading his articles. As I mentioned in Curbing Food Cravings, a body needs a specific amount of glucose to function. If you don’t eat it, or if your liver doesn’t make enough of it, you’re probably (hopefully) going to crave it. If you ignore those cravings or simply don’t have them, in time, hypothyroidism will develop (maybe, not sure how sound the science was in that study, the subject were eating PUFAs of course!) and the muscles may start to atrophy (if enough protein is not consumed to both convert glucose and build muscle).
More Self-Experimentation
If you are low carb, particularly if you are VLC, and you are either bored as hell or you experience intense cravings for carbs, you might try experimenting with carbohydrates.
That’s where this blog post and my recent experiment on myself comes in. How are you going to manage that and stay symptom free? That was the answer I was looking for. I tried adding sweet potatoes, yucca, plantain, corn, potatoes, fruit, you name it, it caused anything from fatigue, to skin problems, to irritability and low blood sugar, to numbness in my limbs and nightmares (all old symptoms of mine). I assumed it was carbohydrates causing the problems. I assumed this because of the countless books and articles I’ve read about metabolic syndrome. Apparently, this just isn’t the case.
Adding Safe Carbs
I’ve known for a long time that I cannot digest fiber and I also know that I cannot absorb fructose, and what do all of those carbohydrate foods above have in common? Fiber and fructose. So, I said to myself, maybe carbohydrates isn’t the problem at all. For my test I needed a carbohydrate that doesn’t include either of those two elements. Enter glucose .
Sucrose is not quite ideal as it breaks down to half fructose and half glucose. I’ve noticed that too much of it affects my skin, but glucose on the other hand does not. Going on the idea that I was wrong about carbs in general I decided to try starch again (since it breaks down to glucose) but this time in the form of pure starch, namely tapioca (yucca starch) and corn starch (non GMO of course). No problems there either.
This whole sugar eating thing has always been against my religion but as Chris Kresser said in this post:
“Assuming no metabolic problems and an active lifestyle, glucose may be consumed relatively freely.”
So, that’s what I’ve been doing, consuming glucose relatively freely. I don’t eat a ton of it. I never feel the need to but I deliberately (and almost rebelliously muhaha) add glucose powder to my meals in some way or other.
Types of Starches
Now, the type of starch might matter too but I haven’t experimented much with this yet.
Starches might have more amylopectin or more amylose. Amylopectin is quicker to break down, possibly leading to spikes in blood sugar. White potatoes are high in amylopectin, Jasmin rice is not, for example. Amylose is called resistant starch, meaning that it is not broken down in the small intestine but rather in the colon. But since it is subject to fermentation like fiber is, it is probably not good for me.
Hypoglycemia
I was waiting for the low blood sugar blues to set in for a while at first until I realized that it wasn’t going to happen. It doesn’t matter how much glucose I eat, I haven’t gotten hypoglycemia once. It almost seems to me that hypoglycemia is related to fruit sugar, allergies, and digestive disruption. (If anybody knows of some research on that, I’d love to see it.)
The deal is that I don’t know shit (well I know a lot of things about a lot of things but there are some things here and there which I am a little unclear on). My investigative mind is trying to sift through the bullshit literature and the indoctrination in order to make sense of what is really going on.
It is clear to me that there is more to metabolic syndrome than carbohydrates and that, while low-carb diets still may be useful, they may be totally unnecessary and they may be harmful.
Any low carbers planning to dive in here? Any that already have?
UPDATE:
Livin’ La Vida Low Carb just posted a great article on the topic on the same day I posted this. He is curious about “safe starches” but he is still skeptical they could be anything but harmful to metabolically deranged people. So he sent out emails to many prominent figures such as Atkins, Chris Masterjon, Kurt Harris, and many many more. Their replies are posted. It will take a week to read the whole thing.
October 6, 2011 at 10:40 am
My experience is that I gained 6 pounds while keeping carbs below 100g/day and lost them while making sure to stay above 100 g/day. I felt fine on either macro-nutrient-ratio. I do not know if it is my individual metabolism or the fact that portion control is more difficult for me when eating very high fat (a tablespoon of butter over my veggies taste great, two are even better, so I might overdo the fat, but when my stomach feels full – on food that offers more volume like potatoes – I stop eating and won`t take in too many calories). I do not eat much fruit as I have fructose malabsorbtion but I know from before finding out the also made me incredibly hungry an hour or so later. You should also check Carbsane`s blog, there is also some awesome information!
October 6, 2011 at 11:32 am
I never experienced any weight gain on a ZC diet – weight loss if anything – but I’ve heard the same from lots of people. Since I was so sensitive to carbohydrate foods, I wouldn’t eat carbs at all. Maybe ZC is a little different?
I know what you mean about eating fat. I could eat 2000 calories of fat per day if I didn’t control myself, which would always make me feel kind of worn out. Now that I get some calories from carbs I don’t feel the need to add so much fat. I will check out that blog. Thanks for the tip!
February 22, 2012 at 9:03 pm
I have two questions – is it acceptable to just go to a reputable store and buy any package of grass fed ground beef and eat it raw? Yesterday I had the butcher cut me of a quarter pound of the stuff that turned out to be freshly ground a few minutes before…ate it with salt, pepper, garlic, awesome. I always feel immense energy after eating raw beef or fish. Which leads to my next question – Do you think a paleo diet would help or possibly cure what seems to be narcolepsy? I have many symptoms associated with narcolepsy (all but one) and have had these symptoms since I was 14 (I’m 22). I have been avoiding carbs like the plague more or less – when I have them, my symptoms increase exponentially with the blood sugar spike (I think). I am pretty sick and tired of being so damn tired. I love this website – its great to find people who don’t begin dry heaving when I mention I like raw meat.
February 23, 2012 at 9:49 pm
Hi Julie. Usually, a health food store that sells grassfed beef will sell it frozen and that certainly isn’t going to contain pathogens. If it’s fresh, eat it at your own risk. There could be contamination that occurs right there at the butcher. There are all sorts of avenues for contamination. However, if your immune system is strong, and you don’t eat grains or other nutrient depleted foods, you’ll probably be fine regardless.
Narcolepsy is interesting to me. I may have had that when I was younger before I found out I had celiac disease. I would fall asleep anywhere anytime, even driving sometimes. It was scary and totally annoying. It went away with all my other health problems. Good luck to you!
October 6, 2011 at 11:54 am
Very interesting…the wheels are spinning.
Thanks for posting.
What glucose powder do you use?
October 6, 2011 at 12:16 pm
October 6, 2011 at 12:21 pm
Thanks so much! Just ordered it. Let the experimentation begin!
October 6, 2011 at 3:00 pm
Have fun!
October 6, 2011 at 12:28 pm
Does the addition of glucose powder contribute to your feeling of satiety? I think if I relied on that as my only source of carbohydrate I had the same problem as with very high fat: Eating too much and not realizing it. You are definitely a step further if you do not need to rely on your stomach being somewhat full! Have you tried “pure” starch (like potatoe starch) or does it cause the same problems to you as potatoes do? By the way, please post more plantain recipes, I have just found out where to buy them and they are truly delicious!
October 6, 2011 at 1:23 pm
I don’t have a problem with sugar addiction at all. Another huge surprise to me. It amazes me day after day that I don’t really care that much about sugar because I sort of thought (like everyone else) that sugar addiction was a real threat. Now, fatty foods with sugar are majorly addictive, like ice cream. But that goes right back to a fat addiction.
Pure starch is exactly what I’ve been trying, tapioca, corn, and potato starch do me no harm.
October 6, 2011 at 1:32 pm
Very interesting! You do a great job with the self-experimentation. I am always too impatient and try so many things at once that I can’t tell what is benefiting me and what is harming me!
October 6, 2011 at 3:01 pm
I’ve been there. I think you get better with it in time. I was ashamed of being such a terrible scientist! lol. But really, after so many years you realize that your efforts aren’t paying off so you hunker down and get it right.
October 6, 2011 at 1:39 pm
Someone on Cheeseslave’s blog commented that hypoglycemia is a liver malfunction according to Dr. Reams (RBTI) http://brixman.com/REAMS/hypoglycemia.htm. Dr. Reams recommends following a “fairly low-fat, low protein diet high in natural carbohydrates” for this. I’m curious what your thoughts are on this. I’m thoroughly confused about what I’m supposed to eat. I have Celiac and have been gluten free for 6 years. I just started the Intro portion of the GAPS diet to see if this will eliminate lingering symtoms. Too soon to tell. I appreciate all the research you do and the insights you share on your blog.
October 6, 2011 at 2:59 pm
From my own experience that makes a lot of sense. Anytime I have included carbs in my diet (being a metabolically challenged type) my body rejects high fat and high protein and fruit sugar is particularly problematic. I do fine with both when no carbs are present, however.
October 6, 2011 at 1:47 pm
I’ve been doing VLC and some cyclical diets for about 2 years now. Currently, for about 1.5 months so far, I’m favoring more moderate consumption (less extreme stance on carb/fat cycling, protein usually remains high regardless).
Overall, I’m definitely eating more carbs (50-200g/day) than I did during the cyclical times; majority from purple sweet potatoes or rice (very infrequent) and the remainder from fruits (blueberries, cherries, apples, and bananas in order of preference). I’m dabbling with *some* dairy in the form of greek yogurt/cott cheese now, but don’t want to add in milk at all (drink it by the gallon quite easily).
Weight wise, my weight seems to have remained stable since adding carbs on a daily basis. I actually gained weight when I added more fat (a LOT of butter), on top of those carbs (potatoes and butter taste too damn good)..But since cutting out added fat (just the butter) my weight is stable again. I will say my weight fluctuates more now in a given day, 5-8lb swings are not uncommon, mostly from sweat/water/poop.
Performance wise, definitely improving. Part of the reason I swapped to more moderate approach is I’ve been doing 5x/week crossfit workouts for a little over a month, with the goal of trying to improve in various areas (lifts, skill work, cardio/body weight work, etc). I did try low-carb with 1 carb day at the end of the week for a period doing these workouts…but I felt extremely drained (the struggle to make it to Friday was akin to climbing a mountain). and apparently was “very cranky” according to some.
Definitely don’t ever feel the post-meal “food coma” (hypoglycemia) at all. The worst I’ve felt is …uncomfortable, just from eating too much (rotary sushi after a big workout day…damn). Mental clarity, that I once feared would be lost from ingesting carbs stays strong throughout the day and night.
So, its been a positive experience adding carbs back in. Weight remains stable (this was a concern), physical performance has increased (somewhat expected), but most importantly my diet has a new degree of flexibility and flavor/texture. Oh, and I also don’t view a macronutrient as the harbinger of doom anymore…that’s a nice load off.
Also a nice point I read once before: Its a hell of a lot cheaper to get your glucose needs via a sweet potato than from gluconeogenesis-ing grass-fed steak.
October 6, 2011 at 3:04 pm
Potatoes and butter are a deadly combination for me too! Actually, butter and pretty much anything is addicting for me… I too could gain 5 or 6 lbs in a day or two eating a lot of fat with carbs. The two don’t go together well for many of us. I love that quote by the way!
October 6, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Hmm … I’m still processing your post – it’s very intriguing! I hope you’ll continue to share your self experimentation with us.
I do think that low carb diets are a little oversimplified – that quote from Dr. Harris makes a lot of sense to me, I’m glad you passed it on.
I eat about 80-100g of carbohydrate a day. I’ve tried to go lower, but had crazy carb cravings, and when I eat more than that, crazy carb cravings! I prefer lots of starchy veggies, occasionally a small serving of rice. I think it’s my “sweet spot” because eating this way is very natural and easy for me.
October 6, 2011 at 3:05 pm
That quote hit home with me too.
October 6, 2011 at 3:08 pm
Brilliant, honest, thought-proking post from you Peggy…and the comments are excellent as well..
I’m in precisely “the same place”…and am empathising big-time with you and your commentors…I have begun to ease back into carbs after an 8 year long hiatus (I had a long hideous bout with anorexia)…but the fact is that I know that my physical energy and mental clarity DEPEND on reintroducing them…The comment about “making it until” Friday rings loud and clear…I have noticed that since allowing myself a few forkfuls of rice or the delicious galettes de sarrasin here in France, I simply feel better, more alive and much more vibrant physically and mentally..I get so much more done in a day..hope and enthusiasm have returned. Allowing myself to try carbs has made me much more pleasant to be around…and my entourage has noticed it and been thrilled to witness my return to positivity…Frightened was I about the possibility of kilos piling on….In my case…it did not happen!! What I have recently lost was the fixation on foods 24/7..and fear of not eating “the right thing or the right way..I so admire your bravery for coming out and expressing (with lots of research to back it all up) a question I am sure several in the primal community have been contemplating. As you and Mark say..we must be attuned to our bodies, minds and what they are telling us we need..Thank you for being so inquisitive…It truly helps all of us.
October 7, 2011 at 9:15 am
Donna,
You’re welcome. I think these kind of discussions are really important. I don’t really care what other bloggers think of me anyway. I’m not doing this for their sake.
October 7, 2011 at 10:31 am
BEST line ever, i like that you blog with a purpose. i relate very much with donna !
October 6, 2011 at 5:32 pm
I’ve only been paleo/primal for 11 weeks. My results so far may not be too informative because I was just diagnosed with celiac disease and I’m still healing my gut, so I expect things to be changing for the next few months as I heal.
That said, when I first started eating grains/legumes/dairy free I included tubers and fruit, getting about 70-80 grams of carbs per day. I felt great. Then I thought I should drop my carbs lower, around 35-50 grams per day, cutting out all tubers and fruit. I felt terrible: sluggish, moody, and prone to cry for no reason. After adding back some fruit and tubers (as in, a few pieces of fruit a week, and a serving of starchy vegetable once per day), I am feeling much better.
Without fruits and tubers I also felt like something was wrong with my gut flora, despite taking probiotics and eating sauerkraut. A couple of days ago I found an interesting article* showing (with a small sample size of non-celiac subjects, for a 30 day trial) that a gluten free diet correlated with an increase in unhealthy colon bacteria and decrease in healthy colon bacteria. This effect appears to be caused by a decrease in fermentable sugars (like beta-glucans, inulin, pectin).
It sounds like some people have digestive trouble with these “prebiotics”, but for those who can tolerate them, it sounds like it’s important to include for gut health. (Mark Sisson also posted on “prebiotics” at some point.) Anyway, these can be found in tubers, fruits, mushrooms, and seaweeds. So it’s very interesting to me that I started to feel much better by including tubers and fruits back into my diet. And it may be something interesting for people to play around with, if they’re experimenting with VLC diets. If you’re feeling bad on a VLC diet, maybe shoot for your few carbs to come from tubers or fruits high in fermentable sugars, or else try to incorporate more sea veggies and shiitake mushrooms, and see if that allows you to more comfortable sustain the lower-carb diet.
I hope my anecdote may be useful!
* http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3023594/
October 7, 2011 at 9:10 am
It’s interesting how different everyone’s experience is with low carb. I was always one of those that thrived on VLC (but for major carb cravings every 3rd day or less). In general I had great energy and mood. Others just can’t seem to peel themselves off the couch, and still others have insomnia! Our bodies are all really different and so our approach must be too.
I learned about prebiotics years ago and found that they are very irritating to my gut. But again, this is definitely not the case for many… Thanks for sharing!
October 7, 2011 at 8:10 pm
Yeah, and not only are there differences across people, but I think the same person at different times would respond differently, depending on health, activity levels, and who knows what other factors. It’s all so interesting!
October 6, 2011 at 5:38 pm
[I just typed a really long response and I forgot to put that damn captcha thing in and it totally erased what I wrote
..here goes a rough summary I suppose]
http://chriskresser.com/reframing-the-obesity-debate-causeeffect-genetics-robot-clones
As I was reading your article I couldn’t help but to think of the above Chris Kresser article. It makes a lot of sense. The statement that while low carb may fix obesity, that doesn’t mean it necessarily caused it. That’s huge.
I’ve really been thinking about the low carb theory as of late, too, and I think it definitely has a lot of merit. It has worked for me, that’s for sure. I feel, look, and have more energy than ever. Maybe all the puzzle pieces aren’t in place, but you can see what the big picture is. I know that I don’t do well on a lot of carbs. I feet sluggish, bloated, and I just want to vegetate. It screws up my skin and I just don’t have as good of a mood. However, I seem to do well on sweet potatoes and some rices. I’m still trying to figure out what all works for me.
Their is a lot of back and forth going on in the paleo/primal/whatever you wanna call it world today. Stephan Guyenet posted a lengthy article against Taubes’ insulin theories and a lot of it made sense. A lot of our favorite bloggers are still vehemently opposed to carbs. So you don’t know what the heck to totally believe from one day to the next. It’s definitely a constantly evolving process and I think overall steps are being taken in the right direction.
Good post Peggy.
October 7, 2011 at 9:06 am
Thanks Todd, so sorry about the captcha. That’s happened to me a few times before. Depressing.
The bloating was always a big problem for me with carbs too, making me very hesitant to ever try to add them back in. It’s still a problem if I eat the wrong ones. But my mood, stomach, and energy are definitely not suffering with the addition of glucose. It’s pretty amazing to me.
October 6, 2011 at 10:28 pm
Thanks Peg, great post as usual and as usual I am more confused. After reading thru all the comments food combining came to mind, maybe its one more piece of the puzzle??? I don’t know, why does it have to be so complicated?
October 7, 2011 at 9:02 am
I’m thinking it’s because we poisoned our bodies with shit like this all our lives!
DRIED POTATOES, VEGETABLE OIL (CONTAINS ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING: CORN OIL, COTTONSEED OIL, SOYBEAN OIL, AND/OR SUNFLOWER OIL), RICE FLOUR, WHEAT STARCH AND MALTODEXTRIN. CONTAINS 2% OR LESS OF: MUSTARD (DISTILLED VINEGAR, MUSTARD SEED, SALT, TURMERIC), SALT, MODIFIED CORN STARCH, SODIUM DIACETATE, MONOSODIUM GLUTAMATE, ONION POWDER, GARLIC POWDER, SOYBEAN OIL, HONEY, NATURAL FLAVOR, CITRIC ACID, DISODIUM GUANYLATE, DISODIUM INOSINATE AND ROSEMARY EXTRACT CONTAINS WHEAT INGREDIENTS.
October 6, 2011 at 11:45 pm
I just wrote a lengthy post, filled out the captcha box and lost everything. Is there a way to fix this?
October 7, 2011 at 7:00 am
Oh that’s so painful. No, I’m afraid not. This is the second time I’ve heard of it. I’ll remove the feature and see if I get too much spam.
October 7, 2011 at 9:46 am
Interesting experience with the glucose. I have wicked hypoglycemia and generally feel pretty off with fruits or the recommended safe starches so may be worth an n=1 experiment.
how do you incorporate those glucose sources into meals and make them palatable? Corn starch powder or tapioca flour don’t seem to be easy to combine into a flavorsome meal.
How do you handle white rice? I understand that is pretty much pure glucose and it made me feel terrible.
ta,
October 7, 2011 at 10:22 am
Yeah that’s kind of a challenge.
I make lemonade and I have found that cooking with glucose powder is fun. I drink a little unhomogenized milk and add glucose powder to that.
October 7, 2011 at 11:54 am
Super interesting and spot on! I’ve been on a similar route for some time now and I conquer: low carb does cause hypothyroidism.
I went low carb years ago, maybe six years ago (before that I ate very “healthy” ie. whole grains, low fat, lots of protein). In 01/10 I went totally paleo and ditched the remains of dairy. After reading Nora Gedgaudas’ book Primal body, primal mind in Feb 2010 I abandoned the little carbs I had left: a few fruits and things like carrots for they contained “so much” carbs. So practically I went zero carb.
Soon the problems emerged. First I lost 3-4 kgs really fast (didn’t mean to) in 04/10, then my weight started to pile up REALLY fast. I went EVEN lower carb, ate less, exercised more. Heh, not recommendable. Apparently my cortisol went sky high and (didn’t know this until in March 2011) my thyroid shut down. The problem had apparently been underlying there for years. I’ve been sort of over training and maybe a bit under eating for several years but this made everything accumulate.
I gained 15kgs in 9 months (no, not pregnant
), I was totally worn out, tired, my joints started to ache really bad, my palms were yellow, I was freezing and moody. Just to mention a few. It took until March this year until they discovered it was my thyroid (subclinical) and from there on I’ve been on three different medications, this latest one should be “the one” since it appeared I’ve got RT3 dominance.
I’ve added more carbs for two, maybe three months ago and I feel so much better! Despite my fear my (stubbornly high) weight didn’t go up after adding the carbs. Finally I start to feel better and my results at the (crossfit) gym are going up after two years of plummeting! (Been crossfitting since 2005).
There’s still a lot to do but I too recommend not overlooking the signs your body gives. If I’d listen, really listen to my body, I wouldn’t have gotten zero carb. But I just forced my body and felt “good”, never had any cravings… Oh, I’ve also got PCOS now but I’m hoping to get that solved eventually as well.
Anyway, IMPORTANT topic, I’m about to write about it to my (Finnish) paleo blog this weekend as well. Thanks for sharing, hope you’re not bored to death reading my sharing!
October 7, 2011 at 12:44 pm
Thanks for taking the time to write that. That was super interesting!
I would experience spikes in cortisol too which always kind of freaked me out. I wasn’t sure what it was at first and then I realized it was cortisol from zc or more than that maybe just not eating often enough. Anyway, it could be a really scary feeling. Thanks for sharing your experience. Makes me even more leary of ZC with IF
November 28, 2011 at 2:46 am
Peggy , could you describe that feeling and symptoms you get when you experience spikes in cortisol please?
November 28, 2011 at 5:49 am
Sure Lilly. I used to explain it like I felt like I was on some crazy drugs or something. It was so out of this world. I would be just doing my thing as normal and then all of a sudden I would feel sweaty, my heart would race, and I’d be almost paranoid. After my head injury I started experiencing panic attacks. Now that I have experience with that I’d say it’s very similar to one, except that I wasn’t panicking. I didn’t know panic back then so I just described it like I was on something.
Kinda weird huh?
I’m sure it was ZC with IF because it only ever happened when I didn’t eat for a while and it also only happened when I was ZC. I can fast all I want now and that doesn’t happen and it had never ever happened before.
The weirder thing was that besides that, I felt really great on zero carb. Go figure.
November 28, 2011 at 6:01 am
wow, that happens to me regularly:) and it is really scary! I have to figure out why it happens to me so much since I eat often and I don’t IF. I have increased my glucose intake( sugar)also and I have added carbs with meals( patato, rice, or sweet patato) just to manage my stress hormones but it has no great effect. My liver must be messed up since it doesn’t store glycogen and doesn’t filter estrogen good enough:/
Thank you for the explanation, it helped a lot!
October 8, 2011 at 10:56 am
Thanks for this post, Peggy. I have always had problems dropping my carbs below [some magic number] and assumed, of course, that I was just weak when I gave in to my carb cravings. Your post is the second I’ve seen about how low-carb is not always beneficial. The other was on Gnolls.org.
http://www.gnolls.org/1984/the-science-behind-the-low-carb-flu-and-how-to-regain-your-metabolic-flexibility/
“I think that if we keep our carbohydrate intake under our body’s requirement while not in ketosis, which is perhaps 15-20% of total calories—and only eat those carbohydrates with meals involving complete protein and fat, not by themselves—most of us should be able to gain the fat-burning benefits of metabolic flexibility without suffering the pain of trying to adapt to ketosis.” J. Stanton (gnolls.org)
I added a lot of starches to my otherwise low-carb diet last year, and gained 20 pounds in just a few months … but I was also under a great deal of stress (bad marriage). So I cut the carbs, and stopped gaining weight, but of course only lost a few pounds. I’ve since divorced, and the stress load is down considerably now, and I’ve cautiously added some starches back in, and I’m doing good, and not gaining weight. When I manage to do some strength training consistently, I even lose a little weight.
October 8, 2011 at 4:32 pm
My husband and I are about ten weeks into Prima/Paleo with a vlc focus because he is diabetic. I should say was. As long as he stays off starch and sugar his blood sugars remain within normal ranges. I have turned into a super advocate of vlc eating, and I do a ton of research (not only on the Internet!). What I have concluded is that once healing from our terrible SAD and awful modern diseases has occurred, we absolutely should experiment with any/all non processed foods. Dr Cate Shanahan has written an incredible book which many of you may be familiar with ; “Deep Nutrition: Why Your Genes Need Traditional Foods”. Dr Cate posits that it is rancid modern vegetable oils and sugar which are the root causes of our disease problems. She includes raw dairy and some grains while cautioning against gluten grains. She also maintains the cautious approach to fruit due to it’s effects on blood sugar and/or weight loss. The bottom line is that there are a few things that should be completely avoided by all (veg oil, processed foods), a few things that should be avoided by many or most if not all (gluten grains). There will probably never be just one way to properly do anything!
October 8, 2011 at 6:00 pm
This is very intriguing to me. Especially since my grandma just died on Graves Disease (hypothyroidism) a week ago. I’m just beginning the primal lifestyle but think that I’ll add a fermented grain in here or there and not worry as badly about my carb intake or potatoes. Personally, I feel that if you grow it, raise it, hunt it, or make it yourself then it’s generally healthy (in moderation). Of course, I’m a wannabe homesteader so my philosophy is a bit skewed anyway…
Ultimately I think that if we just take the processed crap out we will be okay (and that includes breads, pastas, etc as these have to be processed to get to you-whole grain rice being an exception in my book).
October 10, 2011 at 9:09 am
Totally true except for those of us who ate processed crap all our lives and are now dealing with deficiencies and immune related problems. Just removing processed crap would be a great way to start but not always a great way to heal, unfortunately.
October 8, 2011 at 6:54 pm
Thanks for this great post Peggy! I was LC/VLC for ~6 months and I have just been experimenting with getting some carbs back in myself. Of course, the carbs I miss most are the sweet delicious ones I gorge on – anything made of chocolate… I have been experimenting with baking breads, and let that be my starch source for the day. I am making my first attempt to include organ meats in my diet – I bought the liverwurst from US Wellness and I will have a little liverwurst sandwich on starchy bread each day for lunch. It freezes nicely so I can make five little sandwiches on sunday, and five little salads in the fridge, and then just grab one of each in the morning. I think I have more energy now, although I was doing well VLC. I still IF most every day – lunch is not until 1 and that’s my first mean most days, and I don’t get any hungrier than when I was VLC. I do seem to get hungrier if I overdid it with the carbs at dinner the night before. I have put on some weight since the summer – pants are getting tight – eek! But I think that has more to do with chocolate indiscretions, and the fact that school is in session so I sit at my desk till all hours instead of doing something healthy. I am making adjustments and time will tell. Anyway, keep up the great blog Peggy, you are one of my favorites!!!
October 10, 2011 at 9:52 am
Thanks Laura. Liverwurst sandwich sounds good!
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October 9, 2011 at 12:33 am
I am especially interested in the above-mentioned experiences with carb-fat combinations! I also do not find “pure” starch addicting but I can make pretty much everything addicting by adding some fat! I could, if I`d allow myself, probably drink a can of heavy cream…I think one difficult task is to make food tasty and pleasurable while avoiding to make it addictive. I am still struggling with the composition of meals…Would you advise against eating carbs along with added fat only (as you said like in potatoes and butter) or do you think that potatoes along with fattier cuts of meat aren´t a good idea as well? The problem is that I find starch with lean protein so boring that I am not inclined to eat it at all. So do you have an idea how to compose an ideal meal? I like Paul Jaminet`s recipes but honestly, as I do not fast regularly and eat three times a day they seem too heavy for me! I think that would be a great topic to discuss: How to compose satisfying meals that, at the same time, do not provoake cravings!
October 10, 2011 at 9:56 am
It’s something about added fats for me. I really haven’t read anything about this, it’s just something that I know to be true for myself. I can eat a fatty steak or a fatty food in general and not have problems but added oils are so addictive to me. I could probably drink a can of heavy cream too! I love eating just about anything drowned in any kind of fat, it doesn’t have to be starch. Even eating meat and fat with a spoon is delicious to me. Kinda my guilty pleasure because it screws up my digestion big time.
October 9, 2011 at 5:30 am
I would like to add that I appreciate very, very much that you entertaine this blog as a great source of topics that are relevant for females (only). I think even Paleo/Primal websites focus more on mens` needs than on womens´. I think a lot of aspects need to be treated differently when women are concerned. Many recommendations, just to give an example, base on a 2000 kcal diet which makes me wonder if my glucose needs might be lower (as I do not weigh as much as an average male) or might be even higher due to some hormonal factors. Childrens´nutritionally needs are discussed practically nowhere so you definitely do a great jog in filling the gap in sharing your experience and let other females share theirs in the comment section! This is much needed!
October 10, 2011 at 10:05 am
Yes, no kidding! It wasn’t ever intentional. I’m a woman and so it just kind of comes naturally to talk from a female perspective. But come to think of it, it’s not really natural is it? Not even for women. I’m glad I’m making this a comfortable and relevant place for women anyway!
October 9, 2011 at 10:16 am
Really interesting post and set of comments. I just wanted to quickly say to @Dawn above that if there’s Grave’s disease in the family, she might want to go carefully with the (even fermented) grains as, if I remember rightly, gluten consumption has been linked with Graves.
Peggy, my gut also hates probiotics. Have you managed to comfortably get in good bugs in any other way?
October 9, 2011 at 3:31 pm
Dear Peggy,
Great post, great comments, you rock;)
I am allergic to corn, and I’m staying away from patatoes cause I’m trying to follow autoimune Paleo diet, so, where else to find clean glucose? Tapioca(manioca) powder would be one source, and is there anything else?
Also, how much powder a day needs to be consumed?
I also need advice about my new problems, I’ve been experiencing lately numbness in my arms and legs,together with tingles and wierd feeling all trough my body(head and face included). Also, a high pitched tone im my ears, and heart beatings. Couls that be a problem corelated with hypo or hiperglycemia? Or high levels of cortisole that you mention above? Or insulin sensitivity and pcos? Plese help because these symptoms are really scary:(
October 10, 2011 at 10:17 am
I don’t think there are a whole lot of sources for glucose. Rice syrup is the only other one I know of.
I get very frightening numbness too if I eat foods I’m allergic to. I have a few big allergies and if I eat those foods I will get so numb it’s scary as hell. Almost my entire leg will go numb if I eat rice. Your symptoms really sound like an allergy. I’d get tested if I were you.
October 10, 2011 at 10:14 am
Roger, no, I haven’t. I tried yogurt for a while earlier last summer but the experiment failed. I was doing fine with just a little bit for a while but then I started to notice the usual symptoms I get when I eat fermented foods. For anyone stumbling upon this comment please don’t tell me that it is my natural detoxification reaction to good bugs. I believe that is very unlikely. I worked to “repair my gut” for many years. I did literally everything to eradicate “bad bugs” and restore a “healthy” digestion but it did me more harm than good. I took probiotic pills, yogurts, fermented coconut water, kefir, kim chi, you name it I ardently experimented with it.
Yogurt types of bacteria make me itch so bad I can nearly scratch my skin off. Pretty much all bacteria and yeast foods give me acne. They all also put me in a horrible mood. I can become very caustic when I eat fermented foods. My skin gets dry.
I pretty much refused to believe it for years because all the literature says this stuff is important but it ruins my health. I take out fermented food and within a day or two I’m fine.
I think I am an alien. Or maybe just some human mutant. I don’t have the same bacterial make up that others have. I do perfectly well without adding bugs. They are destructive and totally unnecessary for me. One this that is really good for me though is raw meat. The bacteria in raw meat must be more natural for me. It’s that added crap I can’t handle.
October 15, 2011 at 10:50 am
If you’re an alien, so am I! Maybe we belong on another planet? I have the same problems, allergies to so many things. I have tried for many years to include yogurts, probiotics, but anything fermented gives me bad nasal congestion. That is my first clue. But most anything I am allergic to causes nasal congestion (vinegar, anything with corn, nuts, casein, gluten, soy, etc).
I have been unintentionally VLC on FODMAPs. Not much on the list I can eat. I like tomatoes, but they’re nightshades. I stopped carrots because too much glucose (maybe I’ll experiment now), don’t like salads since I don’t know how to dress them without vinegar (don’t like lemon on a salad). Hard to find any other veggies. What kinds of veggies do you eat? I’ve been trying to eat broccoli and green beans with betaine HCL to help with the bloating. I don’t know if it is working. Just 6 to 8 months ago, I could tolerate broccoli and raw onions fine, but I eat them now and big-time bloating.
Just wanted to say you’re not alone, not an alien. Thanks for writing this blog. I linked from Toad’s website and enjoy your comments on MDA.
October 15, 2011 at 10:59 am
Oops! Sorry I found you through Cruncy Pickle through Toad’s website. Sorry, got lost in a hyperlink wormhole.
October 15, 2011 at 12:35 pm
Sammie,
I don’t eat veggies. I can’t digest fiber. Anything fibrous makes me very bloated, gassy, and uncomfortable. I’m probably not an alien, but I may have inherited some kind of alien microbes?… lol
October 11, 2011 at 5:06 pm
“I’ve been experiencing lately numbness in my arms and legs,together with tingles and wierd feeling all trough my body(head and face included). Also, a high pitched tone im my ears, and heart beatings.”
This is high cortisol levels doing their thing in your body, you need to lower them asap with carbs you can tolerate.
Cortisol and the amount of carbs you consume correlate, the lower your carbs are, the more cortisol is produced and vice versa. And there is no adaptation, your cortisol will be chronically elevated if you are on low carb. Eventually the chronic stress of low carb can make your brain functions go wrong, and you are left with a not so optimally functioning HPA-axis.
Of course allergies for example will also make cortisol rise, and stress in general.
I had the same symptoms on low carb, and it happened after years on LC, but the good thing is that your body can heal itself if given the chance. My symptoms went away with adding enough well tolerated carbs.
Also, adding binaural beats to your healing program will lower cortisol very, very fast. Think delta beats for example. They can rewire your brain, so that you are able to tolerate stress again better, and they will instantly lower stress.
You can get free binaural beats on your iPod from the net, and there is also a cheap great program in the applications, it costs something like 2 dollars etc. Spotify etc. of course also has free binaurals.
October 12, 2011 at 1:02 pm
The numbness that I used to experience went away completely with zero carb. I never had any numbness while being low carb. I’m not saying that they may not be correlated by I had very severe numbness issues which completely when I eliminated the foods I was allergic to. With or without carbs, I have no numbness now.
October 11, 2011 at 10:55 pm
I have never gone VLC (if I don’t include some fruit and sweet potato/pumpkin/winter squash then I get to about 3 days then end up falling face first into a big sugar/processsed carb binge), but I definitely feel good with a more moderate carb approach. I am not measuring it, but I would say something like 50-150g carbs a day (maybe sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less). I don’t crave junk if I eat like this, whereas if I severely restrict carbs then they are all I think about.
It might be because I am very active, have a high metabolism and am very insulin sensitive. I think VLC is very healing for a period of time if you are metabolically deranged or suffering from auto immune issues, but in the absence of these problems then I think a more moderate approach isn’t going to do any harm.
October 12, 2011 at 12:57 am
Thank you all for your comments, and help. Lately I’ve been feeling really bad, and especially after a meal, like I eat poison. I don’t know what food I can tolerate well anymore. I have been IgG tested few months ago and I have been avoiding that food ever sinceand I went paleo. Yes it’s true I am on a low carb diet. Maybe it really is true that I need to add more safe carbs but I got lost in the process and don’t know where to start now.Can I eat rice or rice cakes?( i am not IgG allergic to it). Could the cortisol be high because I’m insulin resistant (pcos)? But to cure pcos/insulin resistance I need to be on a low carb diet, right? I got cought in the confusing circle and don’t know how to get out. But of course, I’ll never stop trying.
October 13, 2011 at 12:09 pm
This is why we should be careful basing diets on a “theory” (Evolution), which is unproven with many flaws. I also eat “Paleo” to a degree, but also include fruits, veggies, sweet potatoes, etc…at the 100-150 carb level. I like the “Perfect Health Diet” web site and “Mark’s Daily Apple”, but like them because they encourage natural eating, which I think in the end takes care of most of the debate. Its actually very hard to eat over 150 carbs a day if you are eating natural sugars and also consuming meat and fats. This is what our ancestors did, not necessarily thousands of years ago, but just 100 years ago…before the modern age of cardboard pre-packaged treated food.
October 14, 2011 at 1:35 am
After feeling so bad, and almost finishing in the hospital,I started eating much more carbs daily( rice with every meal, sometimes patato or sweet patato,tapioca added to veggies or to stew, piece of fruit daily) and I feel better! Also I eat every 3 hours minimum to try to lower the level of cortisol, and it seems to be working. Obviously I messed up somehow my blood sugar by eating very low carb which I started to do because of the insulin resistance in the first place! So, back than I had enough glucose in the blood but it just couldnt get into the cells since they were resistant to it, and now I don’t seem to have enough glucose in the blood at all and that raises the levels of cortisol of which side effects are terrible, and is making the brain to slowly die because it lacks food. Does this make any sense at all? That is how I see it according to how I feel.
Does this mean that I improved my insulin sensitivity so now I can eat more carbs and feel good because that glucose will now enter the cells and make energy?
October 14, 2011 at 11:53 am
It does make sense to me these days. I never ended up really sick like you did, but adding carbs has not proven detrimental to my insulin resistance. And maybe it is just that we’ve had some time to heal. Who knows if I could have eaten like this in the beginning. I suspect I could have, though. I still can’t eat a “normal” primal diet and I still can’t eat fruit. Am I still metabolically challenged? Was I ever? Or is it more like my liver is messed up?
October 14, 2011 at 3:12 pm
Interesting! I popped over to your website to find some means of contacting you directly about something that has been bothering me.
I’ve just been reading “the great debate” on LLVLC around Paul Jaminet’s ‘Perfect Health Diet’ and noticed one of your comments about “straight glucose being a totally different story”.
I was of the impression that you’d gone quite a long way over to totally carnivorous and wondered what you meant by that, but it might well be an old story given what I’ve read in your recent posts.
I’m pretty much straight down the line paleo, tending towards meat and green veg with little “carby” foods by desire, but I’m intrigued by this notion of raising carbs, periodically or routinely.
I’m interested in what you meant in “the great debate” (see: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/is-there-any-such-thing-as-safe-starches-on-a-low-carb-diet/11809) but can follow where you are now in terms of accepting more carbs. If there’s anything you’d like to add in light of my question, please do say so …
October 14, 2011 at 3:52 pm
Hey Paul! In this post http://theprimalparent.com/2011/07/27/the-carnivores-dilemma-a-diet-of-just-meats-and-fats/ I explained when I first started adding carbs back in. I’ve continued experimenting with it over the last bunch of months and have increased it quite a bit these days. Glucose works best for me, but I’ve recently found tapioca to be fine too. Carbs just aren’t a problem, at all. It’s really crazy to me because I was trained to believe that they are horrible. I now believe there is more to blood sugar problems than carbohydrates. I will be writing more about it in the future. I don’t expect these are ideas that most people will ever accept, but we’ll see.
October 15, 2011 at 5:37 am
Thanks for the reply Peggy. I hear you loud and clear on the food sets mood – I become intensely focussed almost to the point of ignoring everything around me when meat is the largest portion of food on a plate. I like a balance with vegetables.
Just clarify, would you … sources of straight glucose without it coming in a complex? I don’t have any dietary restrictions, other than the grains, beans, processed foods and sugar from paleo; nothing that stops me eating any paleo foods (or dairy, for that matter).
I’m considering experimenting with starches. I am on the fence, with a leaning towards jumping back onto the paleo side, wondering exactly what the benefits might be – if it is simply glucose that we need (yes, which can be gleaned from breaking down muscle protein) then I think I already get enough from the vegetables and occasional berries that I eat.
I’m still mulling it over …
I’ll have a really good read through your posts on experimentation, along with others who are doing the same. Thanks again.
October 15, 2011 at 1:13 pm
Yes Peggy, please write about it asap:) I am really looking forward to reading more about this subject because I can really realte to it. I’ve added carbs lately, tapioca, rice, even sugar and fruit and I’m ok,very coinfusing!!So I really begin to wonder what about pcos and insulin resistance, what about what we thought to be the detrimental affect of carbs?? Peggy, solve the mistery!!:)
Maybe it was gluten all along! It estroyed our gut over the years and made us sensitive to everything.Now that we eliminated it from our diet we are slowly( to slow…)healing and becoming resistant to all foods.except guten of course:)
October 15, 2011 at 1:39 pm
I have quite a few articles simmering right now so it will still be a couple of weeks or so. Plus, I am still working these ideas out. I have a lot of thinking and reading to do, but soon, I promise. I hope that we can all build on these ideas together. Once I get the idea out there. I hope it can be expanded on, tested, considered, criticized and everything!
October 16, 2011 at 3:44 am
I have just recently discovered that plantain flour exists and have just ordered it. Maybe it is appropriate for you as well as it is very low in fiber (4 g per 150 g, but who eats 150 g of flour, anyway)? I haven´t found a lot of ways to use it, but there is a recipe for pancakes that sounds good. I will need to experiment a little…As I love plantains and they keep me full much longer than any other carb I am looking forwars to experimenting with the flour! I must confess I have also ordered a flour combination of rice flour, potatoe starch and plantain flour for baking bread (though I am not enthusiastic about trying to immitate modern food with primal ingredients but I need something for my daughter and husband and for guests and soemtimes for myself)
I have thought quite a bit about the psychological impact of giving up (very) low carb after a while of sticking to it. It is definitely tough in the beginning for it was nice to believe in a diet that I believed made me immune against disease and fat gain (did not turn out true for me and seems to be proven false now). Nutrition can sometimes become a “religion” so we all must try to keep an open mind and allow for changes!
October 17, 2011 at 8:55 pm
Iris, my thoughts recently exactly. I’m experimenting with tapioca, plantains and rice. My gut seems to have healed a little from the gluten damage. I’m playing around with 80 to 150 gms carbs. I’m noticing more energy the last few days. Maybe this will work. I find my self arguing with myself. I’ve always disdained rice and tapioca especially. As I’m chewing and swallowing I’m thinking, ‘I can’t believe I’m eating this!’ You’re right “keep an open mind”.
October 18, 2011 at 2:45 am
Where do plaintains grow? the same as the bananas? I would really like to try them, but don’t think I’ll ever be able to get them here where I live.
October 18, 2011 at 8:46 am
They grow in tropical climates, south america all the way to thailand.
October 26, 2011 at 12:49 am
I found plantains, they are yummy!:D
October 26, 2011 at 11:32 am
Awesome!
October 19, 2011 at 3:53 am
Peggy, I dislike the new Paul Jaimnent and primal high-carb phase but I work 70 hours a week so I don’t want to repeat the flaws in their arguments in numerous places :
Here’s the thread with my comments — http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?p=8446241#post8446241 — and try to get out the book “Fat of the Land” from Steffanson — What’s interesting is that he wrote that when he was 70 or 73 and he had skeptical doctors saying that he had ‘incredible intellectual vigor’ and just generally good health, something you wouldn’t expect if he was running around ‘glucose deficient’. Eades also strikes me as the healthiest 60 year old I can imagine — very vigorous for a guy severely glucose deficient from LC eating
October 20, 2011 at 12:53 pm
Arbo, thanks for commenting. I have issues with it myself. Particularly because I successfully VLCed for so long too. Energy was never one of my issues. Weight loss was never a problem either as long as I ate plenty of fat. I am very thin but never dropped below my threshold on vlc.
I feel very certain that the idea that everyone NEEDs carbs is bullshit. It doesn’t follow from empirical evidence. BUT that doesn’t mean that glucose deficiency doesn’t exist for some people and that it is not a threat for some people who don’t do VLC very well. I think it’s cool that research has come up on this topic. If VLC causes problems for some, it is good to know why. Of course, these guys may just be acting a little too careful. They may be addicted to carbs. lol They may be obsessive about their research. I don’t know the impetus behind their extreme caution but I think it is obvious that VLC works great for some people.
I have been really interested in experimenting with carbs and finding out if I am actually better off with a little bit. My observations have been so interesting and counter intuitive. It is posible that carbohydrates are not quite so much of a demon as we all have been “trained” to believe. It’s just possible that it is the processed foods which caused the metabolic problems. Possibly, removing those can fix the problem (just like removing wheat can change hormones, schizophrenic tendencies, depression, etc).
October 25, 2011 at 5:52 pm
Yay, your blog is back on. Now I can comment. I mostly wanted to say I love this post, and I think you are right. Why tax an organ unnecessarily? Didn’t the inuits have enlarged livers or something? Anyway, according to my ND, my liver isn’t exactly in tiptop shape right now, which reaffirms my decision to stick with a moderate amount of carbohydrates.
Sometimes I wonder if there really is a such thing as a perfect, one-size fits all diet, even in a broad sense like all the variations of paleo. It’s really hard to say with all our varying ancestries combined with the effects of modern food…at this point we are all just going to react differently to food.
October 25, 2011 at 8:55 pm
Yes Lisa! That’s what all of my research, conversations, and thoughts have led to over the years. While there is a whole lot of wisdom in The Perfect Health Diet and others it simply doesn’t work for everyone. The only good advice that we can give people is to eat some variation of a real food diet, to eat in some way like traditional peoples ate, and to be open to change. We are simply not the same.
October 25, 2011 at 9:05 pm
Yes, exactly! I agree that is the only real good advice we can give.
October 28, 2011 at 3:08 am
Well, I do not think at all that the Jaminets are “obsessed” with their research. They are actually some of the nicest people in the blogsphere who never hesitate to give advice to anyone who ask and who are genuinely concerned with other peoples`health. Of course, everyone has to find out for themselves what works in their personal situation. I totally agree with you that unprosseced whole foods are the key! By the way I`d caution against citing the Inuit and Massai as examples of good health (as much as I appreciate the work of Weston Price) this simply isn`t true!
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November 29, 2011 at 1:47 am
Have you read about leptin? Both Nora Gedgaudas and Jack Kruse seem to think that leptin is behind all hormonal function including insulin. And once you restore your leptin functionality, you no longer need to be low carb, because your body functions well. Maybe you were leptin (and insulin) resistant and by being low carb you reset your body to tolerate carbs again? Maybe. I find this all quite fascinating.
http://jackkruse.com/my-leptin-prescription/
http://jackkruse.com/the-leptin-rx-faqs/
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January 22, 2012 at 7:22 pm
So glad I saw this post. I originally started Paleo in April 2011 and did zone for quantity which I think was a great stepping stone but when I hit a wall, someone suggested upping fat and carbs.. thats when butter and carbs came into play and I feel like I have actually added some fluff I don’t want at all!!! Thinking time to play around with fat and carbs..
maybe just for a month and see what happens!
After reading all these wonderful comments I think it’s time to ditch the butter
How long do you guys generally wait before trying something new?
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July 2, 2012 at 6:06 pm
Some metabolic disorders are not insulin bound / nutrient deficiency bound,, some are adrenal,, stress bound… PCOS for example, despite popular belief,,, is not only an insulin resistance issue. It is in many cases a leutenizing hormone issue (adrenal). Over stressed minds anx bodies develop metabolic deficiencies as a result of prolonged exposure to stress hormones…
Diet is then essential to give the body all the nutrients necessary for optimal function, especially high protein intake,,, but that does not mean that a person is nutritionally deficient or that heir diet is wrong.
I agree that we should not force our oldies into glucogenesys. We must eat carbs. Carbs are not a problem,,, overheating is the problem,,, gluttony is the problem,,, lack of discipline is the problem,,, and sometimes problems other than food are a problem…
My guess is that most problems that we have today are not due to eating cooked or uncooked food,, or due to eating sugars, pasta or bread,,, but due to very poor combinatory lifestyles…
People sit on their buts all day (even when they think they work hard), get over stressed which impairs their adrenal function, and then they top it off with a nice refined starch, bad fats burger and fries and a bag of chips for dinner…. That of course creates psycho-physical imbeciles who then go see doctors to give them synthetic pills that are designed to mask the real problem and allow them to continue the cycle of poor living choices…
And of course all this causes us to create “diet theories” and “programs” that always, without fail, focus only on two things,,,
1. You must eat THIS and nothing else,,, which is bs,,,
2. You must do this and that excercise… which is bs,,, any excercise to a reasonable level of exertion is good
In principle it Is all really simple:
1. Stop eating junk and clean up your diet… You must give your body some breathing space and some real nutrition… Any sane diet will suggest a lot of vegetables, a lot of protein and moderate carb intake,,, ANY… And extreme diets are junk,, stay away from them,,, nothing out of moderation is normal… Paleo is a good diet,,, I personally disagree with the “no go” list,, but the diet is sound and contains all that body needs…
2. If you want foods from the “no go” list… Spend time to “listen” to your body and identify foods that make you feel energized and healthy and reduce foods that make you feel bad,, or kick them out if you want to or maybe even have to. If you spend 3 months cleaning up your diet you will learn to hear your body. Your body will tell you if a food is a “no go” or not… We are not al identical.. What works for x may not work for y… for example, I discovered that if I eat starches and protein without saturated fats I feel good, don’t gain weight and my body reacts well to the combination. If I eat fat and protein I also feel great and all is going smoothly,,, BUT when I combine certain starches and fat I don’t feel so well at all.
3. For goodness sake,, start exercising,, regularly,,, every day at least half an hour but more if you can,,, even if it is walking only,,,, we are not meant to sit on our asses and not lift weight. Most metabolic disorders are tied to inactivity,,, when you eat clean and spend yourself,, then you don’t have sleeping issues,,, weight issues,,, and other stupid problems,,, a healty person must be able to pick up and go run a couple of miles at any random time a day,,, if you can’t do that,,, you’re not healthy,,, period…
4. Most issues are reversible,,, it takes discipline.. It is not this and that industries’ problem that people are obese, unhealthy and hazy… It’s not your doctors fault either,,, they are doing a job they think is right,,, ALL doctors light up when you tell them,, I don’t want pills,, I’ll stop smoking, start eating clean foods and excercise,,, mine included… if you don’t buy crap products the industry making them wont have a reason to make them… It’s to their obligation to educate anyone,, that’s up to us,,, yes they are immoral,, but who cares,,, so is half the planet,,,
If you want to be healthy DO healthy things…
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January 27, 2013 at 1:52 pm
Hi! Great article. Low carb helped me shed extra fat, which I am in the process of doing, but realize if I want to increase my activity level doing sports, I MUST go back to a higher carb mentality. Thanks for breaking down the science and reasoning behind it all!
I have been wondering if there is a connection between getting enough dietary glucose and brain development. We can all agree that kids eating primally should be getting more carbs than the rest of us. What if you’re a 20 year old female and still growing? (apparently the brain doesn’t stop developing until 25!) Would the same thing apply to me–that because I am young, active, and in physiological development, I need more carbs particularly? Not many people begin Paleo at my age, so I haven’t really been able to find the answer. Was hoping you could offer your wisdom!
Thanks for what you do,
Paulina
January 28, 2013 at 8:53 am
Polly, those are really important questions you’re asking. We wouldn’t want growing people to starve their brains. I don’t know for sure if you really “need” carbs since ketones are also food for the brain. I do know that you have to eat quite a bit of protein to provide the brain and muscles with sufficient energy if you don’t eat carbs. This is obviously going to be a lot higher in growing children and young adults, athletes, as well as pregnant and breastfeeding women. Rather than restricting carbs all together, one should just aim to eat enough. Since this is different for different people, staying under 100 grams, say, may not be ideal for you. I think you can usually tell if you need more or less carbs based on your energy levels. Now, this is only going to work if you are well nourished in general. If, for example, your iron is low, then your energy will be low regardless of your carb intake.